Interview: Matthew Houck (Phosphorescent)
Matthew Houck says “Revelator,” the title track from his new Phosphorescent album, might be the best song he’s ever written.
Coming from the guy who wrote “Mermaid Parade,” “C’est La Vie No. 2,” and, most notably, “Song For Zula,” that’s a pretty bold statement.
“I just feel that way,” Houck offers, unapologetically. “I still listen to it and get fucking emotionally moved by it. It works.”
It works in the ways the best Phosphorescent songs do: co-mingling metaphorical and metaphysical ruminations with a dash of self-deprecation, delivered in his warm, woozy tenor against an ethereal canvas of Wurlitzer and pedal steel.
A little less than a week before Houck returns to The Orange Peel for a Tuesday, May 21, headlining show, Asheville Stages connected with the singer/songwriter as his band loaded in to play a festival in the west Texas hill country. He spoke extensively about Revelator, the first proper Phosphorescent release in six years, and why his songs are not as intentionally melancholic as they sound.
Jay Moye: Looks like you’re in a 10-shows-in-10-days stretch, which sounds brutal. How’s it feeling so far?
Matthew Houck: Yeah, this is a quick little run to get my feet wet again because I haven’t toured in a while. I thought it would be fun to bang out 10 shows in a row with no days off. So far, so good, but we’re only on day three so it could be a different story by the time we get to Asheville.
JM: You did a few radio promo shows with just a microphone and a guitar, previewing these new songs to small audiences before noon. Revelator feels very much like a nighttime record, so I bet it’s great to be bringing these songs to life with a band in clubs and theaters.
MH: That’s exactly correct. It felt so crazy to play these sad songs so early in the day. This feels better.
JM: You're presenting these shows as an “Evening with Phosphorescent” for this run, with no opener. What’s the thinking behind that?
MH: The new record is a thing, but at this point I've got a pretty large back catalog — and it’s been a while since I’ve been out playing shows — so I got excited about the chance to play some of these old songs. I wanted to do something a bit more expansive. I'm trying to take requests and make it a bit more of a conversation and a hang.
JM: I imagine the characters of those two sets are a bit different.
MH: They are quite different. And it’s also flexible. We’ll do two sets if we’re in a quiet theater. But last night, for example, was an outdoor thing [at the Historic Scoot Inn in Austin], so we didn't have a distinct break. It was just a two-hour burner.
JM: You’ve said that you realized you were making an album after finishing “Revelator.” Was it the lyrical themes you crack into on that song or more of a sound or vibe that paved the way for the rest of the songs?
MH: All of those things in equal measure. “Revelator” was definitely the North Star. I mean, look, it's a heavy bummer of a record. I'm aware of that. There are a lot of sad songs on there. But I think there's a balance to my way of thinking. It still feels like a strong, hopeful record in spite of — or maybe even because of — that sadness and darkness.
JM: Have you had the same experience with your prior records? Do you grind away during the writing phase before ultimately landing on an epiphany that unlocks your creative flow?
MH: Yes, I’ve found that’s what happens — luckily, because if it didn't it would be a disaster. [laughs] An “Aha!” moment, for sure, but it also does this thing where it pulls everything along behind it — all the stuff swirling in this messy river — and, all of a sudden, it goes out in the channel and everything starts slotting into place in a way where truly I don't feel like I'm driving the boat anymore. I feel like the boat is carrying me along.
JM: “Revelator” and the [seven-minute] album’s final song, “To Get it Right,” feel like bookends to the journey you’re trying to take the listener on. Was that intentional?
MH: I totally appreciate that you got that. Yes, very intentional. “To Get It Right” directly references the lyrics of “Revelator,” and kind of reckons with them. Whereas the whole record is pretty uncertain and pretty… bleak isn't the right word, but look, it’s sad, heavy stuff that’s being dealt with. My hope is that the last song gives some real strength and resolve.
JM: You've always kept the inspiration and meanings of your lyrics pretty close to the vest, so it was fascinating to read a recent interview where you dug into the backstories of some of your best-known songs, including “Song For Zula,” which has been a mystery for so many years. Why has it been important for you to obscure your message, and why are you now opening up a bit more?
MH: Probably for protective reasons on a personal level, I’ve always just felt better to not sort of lay all my cards out on the table all the time. “Song for Zula” is fairly obscure and open-ended. People have brought so much meaning to it, and it became far and away different than what I ever intended. That song had a long life where I didn't talk about what it was about. So, I don't think it really matters too much what I was writing about, because at this point it’s taken on its own life. That being said, I realize I’m very interested in knowing what the artists I like are writing about, so I’m trying to be a bit more open.
JM: In 2022, you released a cover song on every full moon of the year [ranging from Fleetwood Mac and Lucinda Williams to Nick Lowe and Vic Chesnutt]. As a songwriter and performer, what do you get out of interpreting other people’s music?
MH: You learn so much. You think you intrinsically know a song, but when you start taking it apart and looking at it, it’s amazing. You're like, “Holy shit, I wasn't aware that song did that.” You get to know a song as you get into the nuts and bolts, especially songs as tremendous as the ones I picked. It's super educational. And it's also fun. I tend to put too much unnecessary pressure on myself when I'm making a Phosphorescent album. So, it’s good to dig into other people's stuff.
JM: How did you choose these songs to cover?
MH: It was a process of picking through songs that have been in this little filing cabinet in my mind for years — all songs I’ve loved forever. I got the idea to do [The Full Moon Project] in December of that prior year when I was listening to “Trying to Get to Heaven” by Bob Dylan. I knew that one would be on there. Then some stuff happened organically. I had an old friend [Raymond Byron Raposa] pass away that year, and I recorded one of his songs [“Meridian, MS”] the night I learned he had died. Again, the intention was there, then the boat started driving itself. I still have ideas for songs I’d like to record some day.
JM: I remember seeing you at Bonnaroo, I think it was 2011, and you sound-checked with “House of Cards” by Radiohead. I’d like to throw that one in the hat.
MH: Man, that's a great request! I'll take that to heart.
JM: Did that project clear the cobwebs and motivate you to start making a new Phosphorescent record?
MH: It definitely did. But writing and recording are two very different things. And, by necessity, in order to make a record, you have to write some songs. [laughs] My [Nashville-based] studio is up and running in a comfortable place now — I built it out a lot during the [COVID-19] pandemic — so it feels like a nice little spaceship to go into and make music. I was looking forward to the work of making a record because I really enjoy the process of messing around with sounds.
JM: You self-produce your albums. Have you grown in that role over the last few years?
MH: Yeah, I have. I think every record as Phosphorescent has been better than the one before it. I'm sure I'll get to a point where I'll have to say, “Well, this one isn’t as good as the one before it.” But it hasn’t happened yet. I feel like, in some ways, my [catalog] is all one body of work. It's like a large book, and each record is a chapter. A lot of the time I can't see that until some time has passed.
Right now, Revelator feels like a really strong record, from the songs and performances to the sound. It was a real journey to get to the sound on this record, and I’m really proud of it. I think it's far and away my best-sounding record. If nothing else, I know that.
JM: Your wife and partner [Australian singer/songwriter Jo Schornikow] wrote one of the album’s best songs, “The World Is Ending,” and you’ve admitted to cribbing a line from a poem your daughter wrote for “All the Same.” Is this the most democratic, and perhaps domesticated, Phosphorescent record yet?
MH: I guess it is! But it’s still a dictatorship, for sure. [laughs] Recording somebody else's song was a really different thing. It’s like the dam was open, and her song just fit right in — organically and perfectly — with these bummer songs I was writing. She’d written probably the most bummer song I’ve ever heard. She decided not to use it on her record, so I asked if I could use it on mine. It felt sort of cosmic, like it was just waiting to slot into where it belonged.
JM: What is it about sad songs that speak to our souls?
MH: Man, that’s such a good question I don't know the answer to. Look, I worry about this stuff sometimes. Because if you take a step back, it's easy to ask, “What in the world are you doing making these sad songs?” On the surface, it seems kind of crazy to be traveling in this morose material. But these songs don’t feel morose to me. Somehow, they feel the opposite. They feel hopeful. They feel strong, beautiful, powerful. And revelatory. And it's my hope that everybody feels that way.
IF YOU GO
Who: Phosphorescent
When: Tuesday, May 21, 8 p.m.
Where: The Orange Peel, 101 Biltmore Ave., theorangepeel.net
Tickets: $29.50 advance/$35 day of show
(Photo by Curtis Wayne Millard)
