Interview: Lucinda Williams

Lucinda Williams has earned every right to think highly of herself. The accomplished singer/songwriter and Louisiana native has accrued countless accolades over the course of her nearly 45-year career, from three Grammys to an honorary doctorate from Berklee College of Music. Her songs have been covered by the likes of Tom Petty and Emmylou Harris, while her albums are among some of the most acclaimed of the modern era, with the likes of Time and Rolling Stone naming her 1998 opus, Car Wheels on a Gravel Road, among the greatest albums of all time.

With all of the recognition and reverence around the Car Wheels album in particular, I was almost hesitant to bring it up during our recent conversation ahead of her Saturday, Aug. 20, appearance at Pisgah Brewing Co. When I caved early on and declared it as “genuinely one of the best documents of America of the 20th century,” however, its author was almost speechless. 

“Wow! Thank you!” Williams exclaimed through hearty laughs. “It’s great. I love it. That’s the coolest thing I think I’ve heard anybody say — it’s like a great quote.” Needless to say, we were equally speechless, and thus the foundation was laid for a simultaneously relaxed and reverential repartee.

To center a conversation on just one album in a decades-spanning career is almost unfathomable, so the topic of discussion inevitably shifted to her latest release, 2020’s Good Souls Better Angels. Arguably the most incendiary record of her career, it saw Williams channeling her frustrations and hopes in a post-2016 United States. “I had a lot of stuff I had to get out of my system,” she shared with a laugh.

That it dropped just as the COVID-19 pandemic was hitting the country’s shores gives the songs a prophetic bent. More recently, Good Souls’ opener, a cover of Memphis Minnie’s iteration of “You Can’t Rule Me,” has been dedicated multiple times during encores to the U.S. Supreme Court following the overturning of Roe v. Wade.

Following this rendition, her shows generally conclude with a take on Neil Young’s “Rockin’ in the Free World,” generating a double bill that creates a sense of joy and healing throughout the audience. “People love it,” Williams said. “I think it helps the general spirit and the vibe and everything.” 

That connective quality of music is perhaps most evident when recognizing Williams’ connection to both New York and the Southeast, which have converged and created a style of music now known as Americana. Her work has thus aided in forming a direct link between the urban North and the rural South, and she herself describes the genre as “based on traditional music, but the lyrics are more contemporary.”

“It worked pretty well. It stayed interesting because I told stories before all the songs, and really delved into it more than I normally would, probably,” Williams said of touring and performing Car Wheels in its entirety for its 20th anniversary back in 2018. She brought up guest musicians to aid in keeping things fresh night after night. More sentimental picks, such as album co-producer Steve Earle and her longtime friend Harris, both of whom played on the original record, brought things full circle.

However, in keeping with her restless spirit and eclecticism, the New York City shows brought out the likes of David Byrne and New York Dolls’ David Johansen. Outside of the Car Wheels shows, Williams joyfully mused about a concert in which indie darlings Yo La Tengo accompanied one of her own songs in addition to a joint cover of T. Rex’s “Bang a Gong (Get It On).”

Despite the universality she brings to her catalog, Williams is still keenly aware of the differences that lie within each territory she stakes out, and considerates them in formulating each show’s setlist. “There are some [songs] I’d really like to do, but we don’t really do as much or all the time because it depends on where we’re playing and the audience and everything,” she said. “We make the setlist according to the venue and kind of how we expect the audience to be and all of that.”

As for songs that pretty much always make the cut, more rocking tracks like “Honey Bee” and “Joy” pop up at essentially every show, in addition to the aforementioned “Free World” cover. As for personal favorites that slot into what she dubs the “slower acoustic-based songs,”  “Jackson” and “Greenville” hold particular soft spots. This sort of eclectic mix of hard edged burners and tender ballads offers a clear and conscious task for Williams: “We have to put them in the right place in the set.”

One song that perhaps towers above all else in terms of both popularity and personal significance for its writer is 1988’s “Passionate Kisses,” which netted Williams her first Grammy after Mary Chapin Carpenter’s 1992 cover crossed over from the country world to the mainstream. According to Williams, that success occurred in spite of Carpenter’s label insisting that it couldn’t be a single because it “wasn’t country enough.”

The song’s aching desire for life’s simplest joys and comforts can be summed up in the defiant line, “Give me what I deserve, ‘cause it’s my right.” When the timelessness of the lyric was brought up, Williams effusively agreed: “I love doing that one. That opened so many doors for me. The few times I’ve shared the stage with Chapin, I tell that story and it almost makes me want to cry.”

Even when newer cuts such as “Man Without a Soul” are so transparently about someone specific, Williams still stressed the universality that she aims for: “It was meant to do that. It can reach across broad areas. It can be a political thing or a more personal thing.”

Over the years, and the course of our interview, it’s clear that the personal wins out more often than not. Though she has great affection for NYC, noting that responses there have always been positive and that her work acts as a median between there and the South, the exposure she gives to that latter area of the country generates a certain feeling that Williams seemingly can’t get anywhere else.

 “I mention this sometimes to the audiences when I’m in the South performing, that it’s so refreshing to be in that area and play these songs because the people in the audience know the towns I’m referring to,” Williams said. “There’s a certain warmth from the audience that comes across when I’m singing about Slidell or Memphis and Lake Charles. Any time you can represent an area where people are living, it’s going to come across really well. Everybody likes to be represented at one time or another.”

IF YOU GO

Who: Lucinda Williams with Abby Bryant & the Echoes
When: Saturday, Aug. 20, 6:30 p.m.
Where: Pisgah Brewing Co., 2948 US Highway 70, Black Mountain, pisgahbrewing.com
Tickets: Sold out

(Photos by Danny Clinch)