Interview: Julien Baker

Whether on her own or alongside Phoebe Bridgers and Lucy Dacus in boygenius, Julien Baker has established herself as one of indie rock’s most exciting voices.

Prior to her Tuesday, Sept. 7, show at The Orange Peel, Baker spoke with Asheville Stages about the intricacies of touring during a pandemic, bringing her excellent new album Little Oblivions to the stage, and how stressing over others’ safety could result in more confident performances.

Edwin Arnaudin: Where are you calling from today? 

Julien Baker: I’m in Nashville.

EA: Nashville with an “N,” not with an “A.”

JB: Yeah.

EA: Yeah, it's funny hearing those names overlap sometimes. Well, we’re definitely glad you included Asheville on this upcoming tour. What's your history with our city? 

JB: I've played there a handful of times, and I have never had time — like, I'm really bummed out about it. And it's like…well, sorry. I was about to dive into this whole thing about how touring is weird and it's even weirder now that we're coming back from a pandemic and trying to keep everybody safe. Because one of the things I miss most about touring is getting to spend the little bit of time I have getting to know the towns that we're in, and it'll just be harder to do that since the protocols will be different. And, unfortunately, I've never gotten to spend a ton of time in Asheville, except for around the venue we played. Oh, my gosh — is it...the...Eagle? 

EA: Yeah! The Grey Eagle. 

JB The Grey Eagle! Yeah, yeah, yeah! But other than that, just a limited experience. 

EA: You mentioned the different protocols, and I’m curious about that, just in terms of reentering this touring world at this kind of halfway here, halfway there time. What's the new normal, I guess, for you once this tour begins? 

JB: Well, it's interesting. I've been texting with a lot of my friends who are also touring musicians and we're all...we have a lot of trepidation about actually going on tour. Maybe it wasn't that uncommon that, once the vaccine started getting issued to people — aside from the controversy with people who don't want to get the vaccine for some reason — I was like, "Wow! This is making me feel optimistic. We'll get to resume life."

And now, with the new variant and breakthrough cases, it's a lot to consider because you're asking people...but I don't know. There's a lot of fear, which maybe is good because I'm preoccupied with that. I was just stressed out about playing shows again. I've been practicing my instrument alone in COVID, and we did a livestream to, like, three camera people. And I have incredible stage fright. I haven't been in front of that many people. We played one festival and it was terrifying. 

And I was worried about that, and I was allowing myself to be worried about actual performance related things, but now...I'm not fearful, necessarily. I'm not paralyzed with terror. I'm just really concerned, trying to make the right decisions as a person asking hundreds of folks to gather. It's a lot! It's a lot to think about, because everybody wants to resume their job and it's hard deciding when that feels safe and feeling responsible for other human beings that are involved in doing your job of performing. 

EA: It’s definitely a lot to consider, and it's been really interesting seeing…especially the last few weeks with things changing and folks like Jason Isbell saying, “We're only playing shows where everybody's having proof of vaccination.” And then your friend Phoebe Bridgers saying, “I'm only doing outdoor shows now.” And The Orange Peel, where you'll be playing, is one of the places that's requiring proof of vaccination or a negative test, plus masking. Is that something that you feel like you have the power to require at all your shows? Or are there just too many moving pieces to put that in there? 

JB: That’s a conversation that's happening with almost everybody and their team and their booking agent, I would imagine — at least with mine and the people that I know. And there's so many — it gets so...I don't want to say “tricky.” I don't want to just be like, "It's tricky! I don't know: figure it out!” That sounds like me trying to skirt around the specifics of an issue. 

But there are a lot of moving parts — you're right. And it's not as easy as just being like, "You have to be vaccinated to come to these shows," because the protocols vary state to state. And we haven't had a mass mandate in for frickin' ever — it's the wild west out there. No offense to anybody who lives in Texas, but the legislature is pretty lax. 

The venues will threaten class action lawsuits. You can't legally say everyone has to be vaccinated because it's a huge point of contention. Because it's this loaded thing, we've been trying to figure out who is enforcing? Who is responsible? Is our touring crew responsible for enforcing masks and checking vaccinations? Is the promotion company? Is the venue itself? While I'm talking about it, I'm getting more stressed out about it. [Laughs]

EA: Well, like you said, maybe there’s a silver lining in terms of, you know, you can only split your worries into so many baskets, and then the performing aspect, maybe that's a little bit smoother than what you thought it was going to be.

JB: Yeah, totally. I mean, as I've been rehearsing, specifically the songs for the set, and getting everything together… This is selfish. Well, maybe it's not selfish. It just is a real dimension of all of the different things that I'm feeling and I'm allowed to feel it, but there's a little bit of...well, not yet, but mourning that I would do if we can't do the shows again, ‘cause it's been so long. We're assembling all of my friends and people in Nashville for these production rehearsals, and everybody's getting really excited to like finally go back to shows. I went to an outdoor show not too long ago and saw the Local Natives, and it was overwhelming. I was like, "Wow! Music!” You know? [Laughs] And it feels so sad.

EA: It has been pretty wild getting to go back to shows. We've had some good ones through here — we got to see Wilco and Sleater-Kinney come through for a big outdoor show, and Bright Eyes at a new venue with Lucy Dacus. And yeah, it was just kind of surreal to gather, but it was nice to have that outdoor buffer — and I do feel like places like The Orange Peel are doing indoor shows right.

JB: Yeah! Totally. I mean, I'm not as scared of it. I mean, we're concerned that, like, somebody on the team will contract COVID, and even if it's asymptomatic, then we'll have to deal with that and either send that person home, or if I…I don’t know. It’s a lot. But I was speaking to Lucy about this, and it seems like those shows well, and her band was fine and so was Bright Eyes. But yeah, hopefully it'll be okay.

EA: Yeah! Definitely looking forward to this one. I saw you play for the first time at the National’s Homecoming a few years ago and that was a really cool intimate set with just you and your guitar. But it sounds like with this tour, you're definitely ramping it up and going the the full band route.

JB: Yeah, that's correct. 

EA: I imagine that, as a performer, each of those approaches brings you different kinds of challenges and joys and frustrations. What do you feel like each of those approaches offers you that the other can't? 

JB: It’s interesting. I toured for so long, just playing solo or with maybe somebody else playing violin with me, and I adapted the form of my performance to the way that the record was made, because I made a record in, like, three days with borrowed studio time. And then that was the music that I was performing.

And I, for some reason, I got — well, it's not for some reason. It's because that is the style of music that I was performing and that's what I was comfortable doing. And that is how I learned to perform at this level. And it's been a long time since I've been on stage, outside of boygenius, with other players. I'm excited. 

Again, I think it's more stressful because I don't have control over every single... Like, when I'm on stage building loops and using tracks that I trigger with my feet or construct live, then I have control over the entire performance. But now that I'm playing with a bunch of other players, I have to rely on them. But sometimes that's nice. It's maybe like a metaphor for living in general — I can be in control of every little thing, it's just very isolating and it's more fun when I'm playing with other folks and I can kind of rely on them and not feel like I have to support the show for an hour or an hour and a half by myself.

EA: And thinking about the boygenius experience and the bonds that were forged there — since that project, have you found that it's impacted the way that you work with others in any way?

JB: Yeah! Maybe not in the most obvious way. It adjusted my thinking to allow myself to do things — to change or to have a band. I feel like being in that performance dynamic on stage with a full band made me miss playing with a bunch of other players, but I think also just being around them and writing with them and their friendships has been really important in validating that my ideas are good and I have more options than maybe I will allow myself. It's neat to be around people who were that supportive. 

EA: And, like I said, I got to see Lucy open for Bright Eyes, and then I'm hoping to see Phoebe at Shaky Knees in Atlanta, and then your show, so there's kind of this piecemeal boygenius happening in this area. And it got me wondering if there are plans for for a second album with you three.

JB: Yeah. I mean, we hope so. We've wanted to for quite a while. But first, it was just that we all have solo records coming out and our own tour cycles. And then it was that we all have solo records and tour cycles within a global pandemic. [Laughs] So now, we're doing our best. But yeah, hopefully. I think we all very much do want to keep making music together. 

EA: Well, that was a joy, and then getting to see the demos on one of those Bandcamp Fridays was really fun, too. 

JB: Aww!

EA: I was glad that those were made available. So, yeah! Thanks for, you know, keeping us music lovers fed.

JB: Aww…thank you! Yeah. I mean, same here. It's a reciprocal action. Thanks for listening.

IF YOU GO

Who: Julien Baker with Thao
When: Tuesday, Sept. 7, 8 p.m.
Where: The Orange Peel, 101 Biltmore Ave., theorangepeel.net
Tickets: $20 advance/$23 day of show

(Photos by Alysse Gafkjen)