Interview: Joy Harjo + Glenis Redmond
Back in May, the Peace Center announced a stacked lineup of poets for an event called Verse & Voices. Former U.S. Poet Laureate Joy Harjo was set to headline the event, and be accompanied by fellow regional poet laureates Jaki Shelton Green, Glenis Redmond, Ed Madden, and Crystal Wilkinson.
Although Verse & Voices unfortunately had to be canceled for unforeseen reasons, Asheville Stages still had the honor of interviewing Harjo and Redmond in the weeks leading up to this event. Their insights on their writing process (and their favorite pizza) were too good not to share.
Clint Bowman: All writers take different steps throughout their careers. What is one pivotal step that really launched your career as a writer?
Joy Harjo: I changed my major as an undergraduate from a BFA in Studio Art, when I was about 12 hours out from my degree program, to a BA in Creative Writing. This meant I had to take a fifth year of undergraduate studies courses for that degree. That was a seismic shift. It was quite the leap with essentially no safety net, except a belief beyond logic in my path.
Glenis Redmond: My career has been a testament to resilience and determination, with several pivotal moments over the last 30 years. One such moment was when the KKK marched in town, and instead of succumbing to fear, concerned citizens organized a unity rally. During this rally, while I was performing a poem at the Reid Community Center, I received a standing ovation. The Loyd Artist Booking Agency booked me the next day, catapulting me from a regional to a national platform within a year. This was a testament to the power of standing up in the face of hate. I have always had a Civil Rights grounding in my work and community outreach. This allowed me a larger platform.
I also received an MFA in Poetry at Warren Wilson College in 2011. I was already making a living from poetry, so I returned to learn about craft. I was one of the first, if not the first, African-American Women Performance Poets to study there. Some of the faculty knew what I was trying to do and helped me get where I was going. I appreciate them. I began publishing essays nationally. My first was in Orion Magazine in 2012, "What Hangs on Trees." It made me a better writer and solidified who I was in the writing world. I became even more of an advocate for marginalized voices in my community and worldwide. Many doors opened to me after that would have otherwise been closed, a testament to my unique perspective and contribution to the poetry world.
CB: I feel like a lot of writers say there are “no rules” when writing poetry, when in reality there are some of these unspoken rules of what not to do when writing. There’s also the common saying of “you must know a rule to break it.” What are some “rules” you think about when writing and editing?
JH: Most of these touted rules for writing are common sense and involve constructions of phrases, lines, the shaping of a poem, rhythms and music, and sonics. The best way to learn them is by practice. They become embedded technique. My practice has always been to write and find where it takes me. There has to be impetus, which is the spirit or sense guiding the process. In that process there must be freedom. And behind nearly every poem is a catalog of every poem I have read, [plus] story, conversations, history, experience, and research. (Most of these categories overlap.) Then you bring in the shaping tools. And then that’s where the “rules” fine carve the shapes, sound, and sense.
GR: I think many poets are speaking about form and meter when they are talking about the rules of poetry. I am not a formalist, but the older I get, the more I appreciate form. I will use the form but modify it —break it to bend to what I am trying to convey. Recently, I have been writing Kwansabas; in 1995, the kwansaba — a new poetry form — was invented in East St. Louis. The Kwansaba is a poem consisting of seven lines. Each line has no more than seven words. Each word has no more than seven letters. Thus, the form, revolving around the number 7, adding up to 49 words, is based on the seven principles of the Kwanzaa celebration. I recently wrote a book titled The Song of Everything: A Poet's Exploration of South Carolina State Parks. It was the perfect form for this book as it is a small pocketbook, and so is this form. Also, an African American form to look at what has been done to us historically on the land works.
Glenis Redmond (Photo by Eli Warren)
CB: How much time do you spend submitting your work to various journals? In that submission process, what is the most important thing to include in your submission (aside from your work)?
JH: I have never spent much time submitting my writing to journals, even when I was starting out. My writer friends were often quite diligent in their efforts and often had quite elaborate systems to keep track. I did send work out in an unorganized way. It was usually when requested, or there was some journal or anthology with a public solicitation. The creative work is most important in a submission. Don’t overdo a query letter. Editors are often inundated. Quality and fit are primary, however — depends on the journal.
GR: I do not have a dedicated time allotted to submissions. I submit poems while working on a book project and would like individual poems published in literary journals before the work goes out as a collection. It lets me know what literary journals are responding to in my most recent project. It is an introduction to my newest work. I am writing a YA novel-in-verse about Clayton Peg Leg Bates, the one-leg tap dancer from my dad's hometown of Fountain Inn. A few of the poems have been published. When submitting, include your best work and a strong cover letter.
CB: Overall, what do you hope to achieve through your writing? What sort of feelings/messages do you hope to convey to readers?
JH: I don’t write to convey messages. If I have a story that supersedes the music, I rely on writing personal essays, op-eds, or other forms. For me, writing poetry is like writing music. I am trying to sing. There might be an underlying story or set of stories, deeply embedded history, a place or time that is speaking to me. I listen and go somewhere I haven’t been before, to bring back what is unspeakable.
GR: I see myself as a poetic cartographer. It is important for me to write poems that exist as markers as I investigate the past, present, and future. I think it is tantamount to writing about my history as it is presently being erased. After reading my work, I want to leave readers curious, inspired, and open to where their hearts and minds lead them.
CB: The last question is perhaps the most personal: everyone wants to know, what’s a poet's pizza order? What’s atop your perfect slice?
JH: I make my own pizzas with a dough recipe from Italy. My pizza is different from the family’s preferences, which nearly all include pepperoni. My pizza crust is brushed with olive oil, then thicker with pesto. Then a light mix of mozzarella and parmesan cheese. On top of that might be thin slices of garlic and jalapeño.
GR: Important question. I am lactose intolerant, but my guilty pleasure is a slice of cheese pizza with red sauce, basil, mushrooms with a drizzle, a balsamic glaze, and olive oil.
Even though Verse & Voices was canceled, our region still has many great poetry events to offer. One that is coming up soon on Sunday, July 28, is the Bottlecap Poetry reading at The Station, 100 Cherry St., in Black Mountain. This event will feature three poets published by LA-based Bottlecap Press, including the moderator of this interview, Clint Bowman, along with Michael Conner and Amelia Schroeder. This event is free and starts at 3 p.m.
(Photo of Joy Harjo courtesy of Blue Flower Arts)
